Developers · HR

where to find the best app product owners and developers to open offices there?

roxane julien Head of Growth, ethic in web, collaborative communication tools, better web

February 19th, 2018

There is not enough developpers in France. It's so hard to get senior employees. We are thinking of opening a branch in the US where the product will be designed. It seems to us that the US is a good choice : good understanding of the needs, common langage to discuss, no shortage of skills. What do you think?

Chris

February 23rd, 2018

Hi Roxane,

a lot of quality developers with more experience on new(er) frameworks come from other countries. Another thing is that the average salary of developers in countries as the US are really bad on your monthly burnrate, as I understood from several US entrepreneurs.

Have you thought about blending your IT team; lead developer(s) in France and the rest nearby? Check out https://www.world-coders.com/blog-1 . They work also from Portugal and have developers from all over the world working there.


Maria João Ferreira Building products at Whitesmith.co

February 19th, 2018

Roxane did you try remote workers? You don't need to open a new branch to have access to developers in the US, UK or another country. However, you need good process and work in the communicatio side.

Yesha Goyal A learning professional passionate about business development and marketing in the field of IT

February 20th, 2018

Before you opt for opening a branch in the US and investing in it, I'd surely suggest you try outsourcing dedicated remote offshore developers. You can check the portfolio of designer and developer, get their resumes, take the Skype, telephonic interview and then you can start working with them by allocating a small job.


This will be much more like a trial to check if you feel comfortable to work this way. In this case, the programmer works as your own team member and for the work allocated by you but remotely. If everything goes well, you will get a support on your workload with the same expected quality of work, without the hassle of managing more resources, place and many other costs attached to it. You also get a project manager to whom you can report the problems. These designers, developers can understand your need perfectly as language will be common and there will be never a shortage of any type of skills.


In this model, you also get the facility to switch developers. Like you require a designer for 15 days and for rest 15 days of a month you want a help of web developer, you got to pay only for 1 resource per month.


Let me know if you still have any queries or require further information on this.

Aarif Qureshi Cofounder

February 20th, 2018

Hi Roxane,


You should consider some points before going to open other branch in other country.


- Do you have enough fund to invest to setup new branch in new location?

- Do you have sufficient work to hire new developers for new branch?

- Do you have dedicated clients those can provide you work based on the rates of the US developers and cost?


Above are some major things that you should consider. If the answer of all the above questions are No you should avoid the plan for now.


Other option is to hire remote developers or create a remote team based on your requirement. Once you have enough client base and fund to invest you can easily achieve your goal.


Hope this will help :)

Rahul Gujral Strategic & analytical operations leader

Last updated on February 19th, 2018

Roxane

I'm pre-supposing that you have thought through the pros & cons of in-house vs. outsourced technical talent as well as on-site vs. remote workers and decided on in-house and on-site. This tends to be the preferred choice for smaller, start-up types of operations.

In general engineering talent in the US will command higher salaries than in France, but the benefits costs will be lower. If it doesn't work out, the cost of cutting ties will be significantly lower in the US. In terms of talent availability here's a way to segment the US cities:

  • Top Tier - Bay Area - by far the largest base of sw talent is in the Bay area near (and including) San Francisco. Downsides are high cost and occasionally high attrition rates, particularly for younger, less mature professionals but this can be managed around. Boston and Seattle are almost at the same level in terms of cost & quality but perhaps not quite there and are also a little cheaper. All of these locations offer great accessibility (i.e., flight connections) and lifestyle options
  • 2nd Tier small - Austin, Denver - great 2nd tier sources of sw talent. These cities are not quite at the same scale as the Bay area but still significantly cheaper and offer good lifestyles as well. There is a little less attrition pressure here than in the top category. RTP in North Carolina enjoys a similar reputation
  • 2nd Tier large - Dallas/Atlanta - large absolute numbers of professionals but many work in legacy types of companies and may not have as much of the newer/sexier skills (e.g., mobility, AI, ML). Significantly cheaper than the first category and if you need to build or plan for a multi-purpose office that say includes sales & administration then these cities start looking quite attractive relative to the first 2 categories of cities.

If you are serious about this from a company perspective, then you might want to undertake a 3-6 month project that ends with some visits to US cities - perhaps including some mentioned above to interview potential local leaders. During the prep time, which you could do from France, you'd gather data on these locations from publicly available sources and get people on the phone. You'd also set up people to visit with and perhaps some real estate visits to figure out what your money can get you in your top 3-4 city choices.

Remember that your 1st couple of hires will be key in determining the quality of the rest of the office. If the first person is a dud then you will likely have an army of lower -grade talent so some time spent in the US to identify them will be a good investment after the research from France is complete.

K. Robbins Head Moose at Moose WorldWide Digital

February 20th, 2018

Senior employees - guys like me, who have been working in I.T. since the 80's - there just aren't enough of us to go around. As there just weren't that many people doing development in 1979 when I started.


It's easy to find all kinds of development houses pitching you juniors as seniors, but typically these provider are sorely lacking in terms of project management, strong technical leadership, strategic thinking, and quality assurance.


My strategy has been to hire and fire developers as contractors like crazy, and hire the few good ones. Managers, on the other hand, along with sales people and business partner types, are incredibly difficult to find. I've taken to growing managers internally, it takes 2-3 years.


Other posters are correct, it doesn't matter where the people are anymore.


Best of luck to you.

Lynoure Braakman scrum master and programmer

March 18th, 2018

What are you doing to attract senior developers? The problem for many startups is that they hope for senior people, yet cannot offer a competitive salary or any security. Yet, opening a new office in a different continent is a huge expense and maybe some of that cost can be directed towards the salaries, if they have been too skinny before.

chris moffa Solution Director Target Data Consulting

April 5th, 2018

Rock-on

Jenny Kwan Co-Founder and Technical Lead of Woodlamp Technologies

April 5th, 2018

What are you building? I keep seeing these discussions completely unmoored from product requirements. 1) Does it require theoretical mathematics, computer science, or physics (like chip design)? 2) How about statistics or data science? 3) Or really large scale or low latency *from the beginning* (as in, you don't have a product without it)? 4) Business process management? (read: functional subject matter expertise) 5) Consumer facing information management (read: UI/UX).


Each is different. 1) Go to Silicon Valley. 2) Find a town with 3 or more universities with decent applied mathematics departments. Europe has many. 3) Austin, Portland, Seattle, anywhere there is significant devops / data center activity. I suspect Germany has some. 4) Depends on the subject matter. Find the industrial center for that and find analysts who can code. 5) This is the 80% case. Everyone has a shitty consumer facing information management app. Just farm it out.


In the last case, everyone wants academic correctness and architectural elegance. You don't need it to run a web app. They're all held together with Scotch tape and they all do fine.

Amit Gupta Cofounder

February 19th, 2018

Hi Roxane,

Hope you are doing well.

We are running a company where we can help you to develope any type of mobile app from India. It would cost you higher in USA. Do let me know what kind of app you are planning to develope. We can have a discussion on the same and if you found that we can do the same then we may proceeds further.

My contact details are given below

mail@amitgupta.one

+91-9811299501